Rich Times

<div class="separator"><p style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></p><p style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"> <img class="image-stretch-vertical" height="200" id="igImage" src="https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71G1koXSoiL.jpg" style="max-height: 2560px; max-width: 1674px;" width="131" /></p>Ramit Sethi - "I will Teach You to be Rich" can be found on his youtube channel <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@ramitsethi/videos">https://www.youtube.com/@ramitsethi/videos</a> and has been featured on a Netflix series raises lots of great psychological money questions and addresses all types of people.<br /><br />He has evaluated the FIRE approach to money and highlighted how you can get sucked into a way of living / create a set of habits that are hard to change.  <br /><br />As discussed on this blog the FIRE approach has a large amount of focus on the reduction of living costs. This makes reaching financial independence much easier as a rule of thumb you need 25 times your living costs to have a good go at being financially independent. 25 times 20K is much easier to save and invest than 25 times 100K. <u>Reducing costs can become an ingrained habit.</u><br /><p></p></div><p>The second aspect to FIRE is increasing your income. Again this can become a habit. Invest more for more income, work longer hours for more pay, start a business or have a side gig. When you hit your FIRE number why stop? <br /></p><h2 style="text-align: left;">My / Our experience</h2><p>We reached our form of financial independence 10 years ago. Settling in the South West of France with at the time your young children. We have maintained our standard of living in a number of what can be considered FIRE / frugal ways (not minimalist). This has been done by:</p><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>Invested to reducing living costs - we bought what would be considered a small farm giving us options to add hot water solar panels, wood heating and grow some of our own food.</li><li>Continue to invest in different asset classes.</li><li>Continue to track our spending </li><li>Continue to maintain a spending budget <br /></li></ol><h2 style="text-align: left;">Is this a Rich Life?</h2><p>Are we living what Ramit would consider a Rich Life? Are we enjoying our freedom, do we use our time in a way that makes us happy or are we denying ourselves a Rich Life?</p><p>This has sparked a bit of a debate in our household - thanks Ramit! </p><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>Have we denied ourselves anything?</li><li>Do we live in undesirable circumstances?</li><li>To we consciously scrimp and save on everything?</li><li>Are we using financial freedom in the right way - to have happiness?</li></ol><h2 style="text-align: left;">Self Denial</h2><p>This psychology of money is also a psychology of life and one of those intangible questions - "The pursuit of Happiness" - what is it? What is it to us / you and other people? What are your values, what makes you happy, what is important to you?</p><p>Throughout our FIRE journey we learnt a few things about ourselves:</p><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>Perfection makes us unhappy - it is unattainable</li><li>More stuff = clutter</li><li>Cheap stuff = broken / waste</li><li>Experiences are had with people not technology - spend on people experiences freely</li><li>Financial security does limit some of the projects we would LIKE to do yet we know we do not HAVE to do them and we can WAIT to do them.</li><li>We will always have priorities and different goals<br /></li></ol><p> So what questionable / negative habits have we had - related to the FIRE building years:</p><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>We purchased some cheap tools that have not lasted a long time. We have now switched to purchasing expensive tools. </li><li>Due to extra free time we had our head turned by technology - all too easy to look at the news / repetition which impacted our mental health / happiness.</li><li>We have been too cheap with our food shop - the local market food is far superior to the supermarket food.</li><li>We have not splashed out on fancy holidays... yet we have lots of small holidays as the South of France is full of "holidays"</li><li>FIRE has made us stand out - the question "what do you do for a living" leaves many people confused and un-interested in us.... this has led to us avoiding who we are sometimes. I still find it odd how people are not interested in what FIRE is and what you can do with parts of it.</li><li>We have not made our property a perfect show home.</li><li>We have lost lots of old friends by moving to another country.</li></ol><p>Are these things denying ourselves a Rich Life? Are we in self denial in some ways? <br /></p><p>There are always trade offs in life - as the list above highlights - yes we could have done things differently. We have had to attack and change some habits. We have to undertake self reflection and embrace change. We must stand back look at ourselves and ask - "I really am like that, I don't like it and have to change"</p><p>Keeping an open mind, listening to other peoples points of view, taking criticism and evaluating it then considering the trade offs is key to personal development. </p><p>Seeking perfection is a pipe dream in our opinion and striving for perfection brings other negative traits / habits. Acceptance, gratitude, truth and transparency help reach what the stoics call tranquility.</p><p>Are we practicing self denial? Sometimes you need someone to point it out to you! <br /></p><h2 style="text-align: left;">We do have a Rich Life?</h2><div style="text-align: left;">We have had to make trade-offs. We continue to adjust the way we live and spend. We know perfection does not exist. As per the stoics we just want a tranquil life one where we are in control of our own lives, do not endure financial hardship / owe other people money. We want to pay our own way and not be a burden on anyone.<br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br />There is no doubt to us we have a rich life. We are incredibly grateful for the time we get to spend as a family - time is spent we cannot buy it back. </div><p>We live in a fun place with a rich history of the good life, alfresco living, great food. We are approximately 2 hours from the Mediterranean, Atlantic ocean and Pyrenees Mountains for the ski season. We have a comfortable house with no neighbors which provides some of the resources we consume. <br /></p><p>Ramit's reminder to live a Rich Life is a very good point - you only live once make the most of it!</p><p>We need to accept FIRE is a tool, one of many, to take control of your life escape debt serfdom and wage slavery - it is a "short term fix" in a long haul game. The tables can be turned against us at any point - but we cannot be fearful. We have to find a balance but accept change will always be with us.</p><p>Peace, prosperity and happiness</p><div><div> <br /> <b>CoNTeNDeR</b><br /> <br /> <b>Welcome New Readers!</b> Please take a look around.<a href="http://getintheringwithme.blogspot.com/p/about-me.html" target="_blank">Click here</a><b> </b>to find out more about <b>THE.TriBe</b> and the blog is or perhaps browse the <a href="http://getintheringwithme.blogspot.com/p/all-posts-get-in-ring.html" target="_blank"><u>all posts list</u></a>, Please feel free to play with the <a href="http://getintheringwithme.blogspot.com/p/muff-tools-and-check-lists.html" target="_blank">planning tools and checklists</a>. If you liked this post can you please spare a few seconds to share it? The information in this blog is distributed on an "As Is'' basis, without warranty of any kind. It is intended for entertainment purposes only. Information might not be completely comprehensive and some readers may want to consult additional sources. This blog does not contain professional advice. For professional advice, consult a professional. By reading this blog you acknowledge full responsibility for your actions with respect to any loss or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly in connection with the blog. The value of investments can fall as well as rise and any income from them is not guaranteed. You should be prepared to lose your investment. Past performance is not a guide to future performance. Never base any investment decision from information contained in this website. It is not intended to be, nor should it be construed as an offer to buy or sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy or sell securities, or as a recommendation to purchase anything. I take no responsibility for any decisions you make based on the information in this site. If you are in any doubt as to the risk or suitability of an investment or product you should seek advice from an independent financial adviser \ professional. No infringement of copyright is intended from any of the images and links to videos on this site.</div></div>

Rich Times

  Ramit Sethi - "I will Teach You to be Rich" can be found on his youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@ramitsethi/videos and ...

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Financial Independence and Happiness Books

<b>SPEND.IT.NOW: </b><i>"You say Read Read Read - I haven't got time to read! TLTM (too long too much?). I've been fed snippets all my life. The news in 10 minutes is all you need don't you know? That's what I want concise, short, to the point, none of this 300 page novel stuff. Crikey, even your blog posts are too long CoNTeNDeR. I've gotta do other stuff you know. </i><br> <br> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjLclnDc3bXXYAUmvcIIV65Huqfz40tG-nnwbaOQPANt2qyOCbi_jC09RI-qo197YlNwdBfHgCYwX2Qfn5HybPpLJF1Q1ry1sTecjsrGqoTxqkUHeLWvcoXcnEvJzffOFEifW8aUWl5yXXP/s1600/Books.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="235" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjLclnDc3bXXYAUmvcIIV65Huqfz40tG-nnwbaOQPANt2qyOCbi_jC09RI-qo197YlNwdBfHgCYwX2Qfn5HybPpLJF1Q1ry1sTecjsrGqoTxqkUHeLWvcoXcnEvJzffOFEifW8aUWl5yXXP/s400/Books.jpg" width="400"></a><i>Short is all I want! Let's start by sorting this blog out.</i><br> <br> <i>Change it to "</i><i><i><b>SMBH</b>"<b> </b></i><b>S</b>ave <b>M</b>oney, <b>B</b>e <b>H</b>appy" -  that's it nice, simple and quick to read! Genius! </i><br> <br> <i>Delete everything on the blog and replace </i><i><i><i>the front page</i></i> with "</i><i><i><b>SMBH</b>". Job done. You will thank me </i>CoNTeNDer you can pack up the website as you have done your bit and have all that spare time to fill with fun"</i><br> <i><br></i> <b>CoNTeNDeR:</b><i> "<b>SMBH </b>to you too!"</i><br> <br> <b>Books are great, something to get lost in for a few hours, something to debate, something new to learn. A lot of what is discussed on this site has its starting point in a book or article. This post is all about the books we have relied upon for our financial independence and downshifting planning. </b><br> <br> <span style="font-size: large;">Reading, Why Bother?</span><br> <br> Books, Books, and More Books, so many to read and so long. When will one ever the the time to read them all?<br> <div style="text-align: center;"> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate" target="_blank"><br></a></div> Aren't a lot of books just fiction such as graphic crime stories and romantic slush. Yes they may be great to retreat into a fantasy world unfortunately they will not help with gaining financial independence (although they may help on the happiness side).<br> <br> What we are really looking for are reference and how to books and essays.<br> <br> It is all too easy to say "<i>Come on, I had my share of serious books at university</i>" unfortunately the books in university were generally just on topic. Too specific and not everyday real world challenges. <br> <br> For example <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141038225/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=0141038225&linkCode=as2&tag=thecontfinain-21" id="static_txt_preview" target="_blank">Antifragile</a> and <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141034599/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=0141034599&linkCode=as2&tag=thecontfinain-21" id="static_txt_preview" target="_blank">The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable</a> by Nassim Taleb are the opposite of  "Don't worry about challenges, society will look after you, go to the pub, watch a movie or go to the shops instead. It is more fun". Taleb highlights how fragile some of our support systems actually are how unforeseen events will always exist and what we as individuals can do about it.<br> <br> <div style="text-align: center;"> <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/WorldMapLiteracy2011.png/400px-WorldMapLiteracy2011.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="185" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/WorldMapLiteracy2011.png/400px-WorldMapLiteracy2011.png" width="400"></a></div> <div style="text-align: center;">  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate" target="_blank">List of countries by literacy rate source: Wikipedia</a></div> <br>

Financial Independence and Happiness Books

SPEND.IT.NOW: "You say Read Read Read - I haven't got time to read! TLTM (too long too much?). I've been fed snippets all my li...

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Financial Independence in a FUBAR Economy

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody> <tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjj_e0QTj0TicInZ-UVEPRrwal_alj3I3f-3EPJboSlidMmNdgJBj45aazBx0ni0ZxntRHwm2yEje7Eww5cXRFEpFGCdDAyt0BdyZ0lR_mQeZbgeMVih5dfW6fqh-ZSxUc8LJeKAQspTaSW/s1600/FUBAR.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" border="0" height="206" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjj_e0QTj0TicInZ-UVEPRrwal_alj3I3f-3EPJboSlidMmNdgJBj45aazBx0ni0ZxntRHwm2yEje7Eww5cXRFEpFGCdDAyt0BdyZ0lR_mQeZbgeMVih5dfW6fqh-ZSxUc8LJeKAQspTaSW/s320/FUBAR.jpg" title="FUBAR Economy" width="320"></a></td></tr> <tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><i>Original Photo by: Kheng Guan Toh</i></td></tr> </tbody></table> <i>Welcome Fight Fans well <b>THE.CONTENDER</b> has got himself into a pickle. He is unsure of his next move.<b> </b></i><br> <br> <i><b>THE.FUTURE </b>as ever is not following the script. Its tactics constantly change. What is CoNTeNDeR to do? Change his tactics, change his training routine, change the game plan? </i><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <b>Are the financial markets FUBAR (F***** Up Beyond All Recognition)? Are there any "safe" places to put our capital to ensure financial independence for the Tribe? This post goes through some thinking on the challenges ahead and lists a few books that could shed some light on THE.FUTURE</b><br> <br> <span style="font-size: large;">Financial independence \ Downshifting update</span><br> <br> Mrs C has resigned and we are definitely taking some time out as a family in the South of France. We will be renting a property for a period of time to check out the location and make sure we are happy before fully committing to France.<br> <br> We will apply for residency and buy a house with whatever our investments are worth in <b>THE.FUTURE</b>.<br> <br> A year ago we were on track to live off our income portfolio indefinitely <b>WITHOUT </b>considering our pension schemes. This is no longer the case. What has happened and what are we doing about it.<br> <br> Easy come easy go......<br> <br> <span style="font-size: large;">Tribe investments</span><br> <br> The latest investing mistake of the Tribe was to underestimate how schizophrenic the markets can be when the US Federal Reserve "speaks".<br> <br> They say "actions are worth a thousand words" however in the case of the Fed the opposite seems to be true!<br> <br> The mention of the word taper has dramatically hit our protection portfolio value - the precious metals component (but we have the gift of time). Our Growth and Income portfolios are also down a little this year. <br> <br> Unfortunately even cash, also known as un-backed fiat paper money, is not safe as its purchasing power is being quickly eroded by global QE.<br> <br> So even though we have been paid good dividends and income from Mrs C's work the total portfolio is down for the year. Just when we have both stopped working. <b>Bad Bad Bad?</b><br> <br> <div style="text-align: center;"> <i><b>So what is the Fed up to? Where do they want us to park our money and </b></i></div> <div style="text-align: center;"> <i><b>what are their plans for it? </b></i></div> <div style="text-align: center;"> <br></div> <div style="text-align: center;"> <i><b>Do these really align with our goal of financial independence or does work beckon faster than we anticipated?</b></i></div>

Financial Independence in a FUBAR Economy

Original Photo by: Kheng Guan Toh Welcome Fight Fans well THE.CONTENDER has got himself into a pickle. He is unsure of his next move.  ...

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Frugality+Budgeting+Investing+Planning+ Hard Work=Financial Independence

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody> <tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQ74fArQVPm-6eMFn0rAZrgpQDZjvyfur3aB9lYdcUxbGrkfQQ_x-IbFB2tJgm4xeNO0XVxgzus07WQKreBs0km-uCg0EcdKYcWxtXb5j0wIUBtBNRXKxFXQxB54AlzK2v2-iacTdNL4s0/s1600/ThailandCM.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQ74fArQVPm-6eMFn0rAZrgpQDZjvyfur3aB9lYdcUxbGrkfQQ_x-IbFB2tJgm4xeNO0XVxgzus07WQKreBs0km-uCg0EcdKYcWxtXb5j0wIUBtBNRXKxFXQxB54AlzK2v2-iacTdNL4s0/s320/ThailandCM.JPG" width="320"></a></td></tr> <tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Nice shiny stuff - usually very expensive....</td></tr> </tbody></table> <h2> <span style="font-size: large;">Exposing the ways of the financially Independent Wealthy </span></h2> <i><b>SPEND.A.LOT: </b>"I'm off shopping it's Saturday after my pay check. I've worked hard this month and deserve a new pair of shiny flashing light beep beep sneakers"</i><br> <i><b>THE.CONTENDER: </b>"Aren't the beep beep sneakers way expensive? Can you buy them out of your pay check after paying all the bills?"</i><br> <i><b><br></b></i> <i><b>SPEND.A.LOT </b>"Well I just received this card through the post it has $2,000 of credit to spend now on it and no payments for 6 whole months - result! I want a new car as well there is a nice sports car in the local dealership with 10%. We can use the other car for the kids and I get to look the business"<b><br></b></i><br> <span style="color: blue;"><b><br></b></span> <span style="color: blue;"><b>Card issuer (AKA THE.FUTURE) - </b>what a sucker! They never read the small print, interest rate of 2000% he will be my little slave before he knows it.</span><br> <i><b><br></b></i> <i><b>THE.CONTENDER: Would you hold off your purchases a minute<span style="color: blue;">,</span> mate? I would like you to read a little book before you buy the sneakers and new car. It is called "The Millionaire Next Door"</b></i><br> <br> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"><tbody> <tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21LiILnlkNL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click-small,TopRight,12,-30_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="200" src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21LiILnlkNL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click-small,TopRight,12,-30_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg" width="200"></a></td></tr> <tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><b>Millionaire Next Door on Amazon</b></td></tr> </tbody></table> <div style="text-align: center;"> <br></div> <span style="font-size: small;"><b>"The Millionaire Next Door<span style="font-size: small;">" by Thomas Stan<span style="font-size: small;">ley and William Danko  </span>expos<span style="font-size: small;">es the truth tha<span style="font-size: small;">t great <span style="font-size: small;">defense</span> (<span style="font-size: small;">that is "</span>controlled spending on necessities" <span style="font-size: small;">compared to <span style="font-size: small;">consumerism<span style="font-size: small;"> is the road to wealth. 1 Million + copi<span style="font-size: small;">es <span style="font-size: small;">sold </span>in the US alone <span style="font-size: small;">speak for itself.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> This post ha<span style="font-size: small;">s:</span> </b></span><br> <ol> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><b><span style="font-size: small;">A</span> short review of the book </b></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><b><span style="font-size: small;">THE.CONTENDER <span style="font-size: small;">c</span>oncerns for<span style="font-size: small;"> the <span style="font-size: small;">k</span>ids</span></span></b></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><b><span style="font-size: small;">A</span> look at putting some of the recommendations <span style="font-size: small;">of the book </span>into practice</b></span></li> </ol> <br> "The Millionaire Next Door" written in 1996 investigates the lives of the wealthy. Their spending habits and investing traits versus high income low net worth individuals. Again the same result as the one THE.CONTENDER believes in:<br> <br> <div style="text-align: center;"> <span style="font-size: large;">Frugality + Budgeting + Inves<span style="font-size: large;">ting + </span>Planning + Hard Work </span></div> <div style="text-align: center;"> <span style="font-size: large;">= Financial Independence</span></div> <br> <span style="font-size: large;">T<span style="font-size: large;">he</span> B<span style="font-size: large;">ook</span></span><br> <span style="font-size: small;"><b> </b></span> <br> Simple enough isn't it? What was more fascinating about the book for daddy CONTENDER is the impact of your own consumption and traits rub off on the kids. In the book some very concerning points are made.<br> <br> <span style="font-size: small;">Spendthrift high income families generally:</span><br> <ol> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Care about status an<span style="font-size: small;">d keeping up with the Jones</span></span></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Spend a<b> </b>lot on expensive <span style="font-size: small;">consumer goods (Cars, boats, clothes, blenders, <span style="font-size: small;">cappucino</span> makers and the like</span></span></span>)</span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Do not have a household annual budget</span> </span></li> <li>Do not dedicate enough time to financial planning and investing</li> <li>Some rely on sustaining their lifestyle on "gifts" from rich parents.</li> </ol> <span style="font-size: small;">Compare this to millionaires</span><br> <ol> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">They save at least 15% of their income</span></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Their income is a very small part of their total wealth</span></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">A<span style="font-size: small;"> significant amount own their own business, leverage their contacts to get good deals and business passed onto them.</span></span></span></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Are humble in front of their employes and<span style="font-size: small;"> <span style="font-size: small;">neighbors</span> showing no signs of their real wealth</span></span></span></span></li> <li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">The are fully satis<span style="font-size: small;">fied with their humble living and have no intention to change and tu<span style="font-size: small;">rn into a consumer<span style="font-size: small;">. They have c<span style="font-size: small;">learly defined life goals.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></li> </ol> <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">It is a <span style="font-size: small;">fascinating</span> look into the lives of the <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">wealthy</span> with loads of case studies<span style="font-size: small;">. What is even better is that as it has sold over a million copies, you can pick up a second hand copy for a very modest price so I cannot <span style="font-size: small;">recommend</span> the book highl<span style="font-size: small;">y<span style="font-size: small;"> enough.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br> <br> <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: small;">Please read on for the  impact on <span style="font-size: small;">the kids, FI state of m<span style="font-size: small;">i</span>nd <span style="font-size: small;">what would the Millionaire Next Door ask himself?</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></b> </span></span></span></span><br>

Frugality+Budgeting+Investing+Planning+ Hard Work=Financial Independence

Nice shiny stuff - usually very expensive.... Exposing the ways of the financially Independent Wealthy SPEND.A.LOT: "I'm off ...

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